A Way To Test NeoBux

I've calculated a way to test if it's possible to make money with NeoBux. Yes, I've said that I'm done with PTCs. Apparently, I haven't yet totally convinced myself. I need to know if NeoBux is even potentially reliable. So this is what I've done.

It costs $0.66 to rent the minimum referrals (3).
It costs $3.69 to extend them for the maximum amount of time (240 days).

There are two first problems.

1. How do you deal with waiting, if you're going to click 4 ads per day (108.75 days to get to that)?
2. How do you match up referral sets? That is, how do you deal with the 30 day difference that always occurs?

The solution to problem 1 is that I give money to anyone who might be interested in trying this out, assuming that the current strategy that I'm using works. If it works, then won't I have money to doll out? For me, the solution was that I already had money in my NeoBux from all the experimenting; so, no waiting.
However, assuming that neither of these are true...
Extending 3 refs for 60 more days costs $1.20. During that time (30 days of having the 3 refs you just got), if you've clicked 4 ads per day, you'll have $1.20 (30 * 4). If you haven't, extending 3 refs for 30 days costs $0.21, leaving, hopefully, excess money. Repeating this process will eventually get you up to being able to extend for 240 days each time. Tedious? Yes. But it won't feel as long as the 108 day wait: you're doing something, and you're watching your referrals.

The solution to problem 2 is to separate the 30 from the rest of the equation.
240 (extension) + 30 (initial referral amount) = 270. I couldn't match it up using the 270, but I could with the 240. The plan is to, every 120 days, to check up on how the referrals are doing, see if it's plausible to get more, and then perhaps to buy another set of referrals.

Why will this work?
Gain is greater than cost.

4 * 120 = 480; $4.80. (Assumed gain of clicking every day)
3.69 + .66 = 4.35; $4.35 (Cost of renting new referrals)

Depending on how well the referrals click, I may or may not get many sets. I'm assuming that there won't be a lot of clicking, and I plan to find about where the drop-off is (and if, perhaps, it's computer-generated, and if that means it's engineered to be impossible, and if that means you have to get golden, and whether that means it's a scam or that you "have to put in something to get something out").

So, assuming for not that many new sets:
$4.80 - $3.69 = $1.11. Recycling costs $0.07. $1.11 / $0.07 = 15.857, or 15. That's per 120 days, because that's the refresh rate. So: 15 per 120 days, or 1 per 8 days. So: using this method, you can recycle once per 8 days and have money to make the system go.

I'm also using the paper-and-pen method to record things down. I don't know why, but it just works better for me than the Excel system. The reason I switched is that I accidentally deleted the Excel (trying to use google docs in combination with my hard-drive, making for a transition that... yeah)... and, I'm just really tired of using it. I like to turn pages, too. I just prefer it right now... bug off...

This system should be usable by anyone who wants to investigate the NeoBux PTC.

NeoBux Renting Rescue: The Fundamental Flaw

The problem with trying to direct referrals is that of basically being
a spambot and creating an unsustainable MLM matrix:
there's inevitably going to be a loser, if not many.

However, this problem is not eliminated with renting.
Instead, it's put off a bit down the line. Especially with
NeoBux, you're not pushing people to click. The clicking
is dependent on whether they want to get the clicks
from their referrals. All well and good.

Here's the problem: You can rent more than one person.
And that person can only be rented to you.
That means that that person can't be rented to anyone else.
And that means that if someone has all of the rents,
then no-one else can rent.

Let's just say everyone in the world who was on NeoBux
was rented to 10 people. What does this mean for the other
non-10 people? That means that there's no incentive to click -
whose clicks are you trying to get?

Thus, it seems, unless there's an equal distribution of who
gets the clickers, the system will implode. And even with
an insane thing like regulating NeoBux -- growth can only
come from getting more clicks, and getting more clicks
comes from getting more users. This fundamentally limits
the system. You just get the direct referral problem happening
later on, in a more dispersed and abstract way.

So - the fundamental flaw: people can only be rented to one
person at a time. Which is great for the people who got into the
system really fast. But soon, the people who are clicking to
get their referral clicks will notice a decline in the referral
clicks (because the referrals aren't getting clicks from the
people THEY rented), and accordingly, will become rather
demotivized and probably stop clicking.

And guess how that'll end up?

Even in the best-case scenario where everyone clicked 4 ads
each day, the only way to get more clicks is to invite more people
into NeoBux so you can use their clicks. And why will they
click? Who knows -- everyone's already rented to someone! (theoretically)


What's the solution?

I'll take a stab: a system that is integrated with something else,
probably a social networking site or something. Like a facebook
NeoBux or a Gmail NeoBux, or something like that. In a similar
vein as Swagbucks, where the company provides incentives to
look at otherwise-annoying ads. Now, because those ads are
being seen, you've gotten exposure to product x. And so it
would in that way be a win-win scenario.

A Dying Trend?

Well howdy. It's almost been a month.

What have I been doing? Not much. Lots of relationship stuff.

I've been doing NeoBux, mainly. I'm wanting to do other PTCs
as well, or something else at the least, but it looks like the only
reliable PTC that has a rental system is NeoBux.

Gomez, Swagbucks, and NeoBux. And frankly, the money
so far hasn't exactly been that fast. Money from Swagbucks
has helped here and there, though.

My initial guess regarding NeoBux was to do with the
following calculations:
- 4 clicks per 3 referrals (break-even standpoint)
- How long this would take to reproduce more referrals who, in turn, make me enough money to
- Rent more referrals

A Standard member in NeoBux can have 300 referrals.

My calculation was thus this:

If there is a total and overall average of 4.1 clicks per
3 rentals, then after you make enough profit to rent referrals
and get to 300, you'll make a
daily profit of $8.10, a
monthly profit of $243, and a
yearly profit of $2956.50.

And the time in total to get to this would be
142 days.

Not exactly great, but then, it's a whole lot better
than investing 6 months of excitement, anticipation,
and around $200 into a site like bux.to!

Not too shabby, but indeed based on an assumption,
and an important one:
A 1.37 click ratio.

The next step has been to see what I'd actually get,
and adjust expectations accordingly.

Unfortunately, the ratio I've been getting have been
a lot lower than what would be needed. 1.14, and trending
downward. The reason, of course, is that I'm not recycling.
At all. Mostly because I'm curious of what will happen if
I keep the rental. Will the rental become active? Stay dormant?
For how long?

Since the renew prices have changed, and more types
of renews have been added, I've revised my approach
to being a bit more indecisive as to what to do next.
I both want to have a high average - as high as possible,
and I want to observe clickers. My approach to this before,
I suspect, was to over-recycle. Or maybe it wasn't -
I don't really know.

Additionally, having referrals who don't click - and click
less - is really boring. I'm finding myself less and less interested
in continuing, so I think I've going to soon recycle them,
if not just to make it so I don't lose hope (hey, it's my blog;
I can be melodramatic if I want).

But yeah. Everything otherwise, this internet stuff is
looking pretty shitty. If nothing else, when I get another
job I'll maybe use some extra money to speed the NeoBux
process along and find out this stuff faster, but that's about
all I'd do.

Maybe there aren't any decent PTCs. Or maybe I do just
need to upgrade to Golden, and that will change things.
*shrugs*

PTC Relapse... again

Alright. So I said I was done with PTCs, right?
That's what I said however-many-years-ago
after I spent around $200 on bux.to and got
$10 back.

And I was done with PTCs... for about a year or so.
Then I came back to check them out, and found
that NeoBux had started up about 6 months
earlier.

What can I say? I'm a PTC addict. I want an
easy way to make money. It doesn't necessarily
have to be fast, but it does have to be reliable,
and preferably have a high potential. Within
reasonable limits, of course, in order to avoid
wasting an exuberant amount of time, and in
order to avoid getting scammed (Ok, really,
just to make it less likely. In the PTC world,
scam in the norm; you just move on).

For example, the payout has to take less than
something like 60 days - otherwise paypal
won't refund it. I heard that from somewhere.
Makes sense.

Early on I realized that getting direct referrals 
for PTCs was not the way to go. Why?
Because it results in a pyramid scheme.
How? Think of it:
You're trying to get direct referrals so you
can make money. Which means that you're
not making money as it stands. Why would
your direct referrals want to join unless they
could make money? And how would they
make money? Through getting direct referrals.
And how would those referrals make money?
By getting direct referrals.

What a piece of shit. No wonder it's hard
to get direct referrals.

(I got a comment from Cameron on one of
my older posts - the one about NeoBux's
autopay, where he said that he linked the
post to his Top3-Pay-to-Click blog - which
he did. On that same page was the traditional
spreadsheet of direct referral earnings:
... and, my apologies. I mis-saw what
was there. Anyway, I can skim it off of
bux.to's website anyway:

"Earnings Example
» You click 10 ads per day = $0.10
» 20 referrals click 10 ads per day = $2.00
» Your daily earnings = $2.10
» Your weekly earnings = $14.70
» Your monthly earnings = $63.00"

And how does bux.to accomplish this feat?
By using bots: (from PTC-I)
http://img16.imageshack.us/f/bots30547516jq3.jpg/

I'll revisit this in a moment.)

Hence the allure of NeoBux: you rent refs. 
Not buy them, as with bux.to. Not convince
family, friends, and make business cards for
random people you might meet (yes, I did do
that - I got bux.to business cards from Vista
Prints. Wow, right?). But just pay a certain
amount as per which way you decided to
pay (30 days, 60 days, 90 days, autopay...).

The question then becomes: is renting refs profitable?
The answer? I don't know. That's what I'm trying to
figure out. And the answer might be thus:
After two years, with consistent reinvestment to
get more refs until you hit the standard limit of 300,
it won't be profitable. Two years sounds like a long-shot
to me. But seeing as I've spent that much time trying
to find a decent PTC anyway, it just might be something
to consider.

I mean, it's not like I won't still be looking out of curiosity,
even after I've sworn that I've stopped doing PTCs for
here now and forever, so I might as well do NeoBux on
the side. If nothing else, I could spend two years investing
nothing into NeoBux, manage the referrals, and come back
with the report.

So it looks like the key to having a successful referral system
would be to rent referrals. If this can be profitable for those
doing the renting, then the system basically sells itself, and the
direct referrals that would occur from people sharing wouldn't
be people trying to make money off their friends, but money on
top of their intended means of making it.

And that's why I only consider either PTCs that have a ton
of ads to click (at a decent rate, which means at the very
least about $0.0003 per ad), or to have a rental system.
Otherwise it's simply not worth the hassle of weeding through
the 90-99% of PTCs that go bad. Other people can do that,
and then you can search for which PTCs rise to the top,
and maybe include those in your base. Or not. *shrugs*

One thing I really liked about paidtoclick.in was the automated
payments. All I had to do was click, daily, on the ads. It was -
for the most part - a steady stream of income. Yes, it was about
$0.02 per every 3 days, or something like that, but it was reliable.
It was certainly better than $0 per day for looking for more PTCs
that didn't work.

So another method that I employ is that of finding low amounts
in a short period of time. Here, again, is a system where you
could find some direct referrals who might be interested in joining.
And then that could be incremental.

Overall, what have I found so far?
NeoBux, Swagbucks, Gomezpeer, and YouData.
Only one of those is a traditional PTC. I say "traditional"
because technically YouData is a PTC, but its style is
much different from what a PTCer would expect.


So, the second part: What's the problem with renting? 
Accusations of NeoBux using bots usually become posts
that are deleted. Perhaps understandably, since the reaction
to this would be, probably, panic. Things like, "Has NeoBux
finally gone scam" might come up. Then again, perhaps the
admin actually IS using bots, and that's why the posts are deleted.

The problem with renting is that the average tends - or has tended -
to be very low. I guess it doesn't really make sense that the users
are bots, in that way, since, with sites like bux.to, you were pretty much
guaranteed to have a high click rate - but ah, until the ref reaches
around 300 clicks. Then it's a dead fish.

Which is why the craziness of some refs is troubling. It seems,
sometimes, that a referral would be active for a few weeks,
and then the average would just drop, or become non-existent.
This has been what has been behind the almost Tessa-like
declaration from people trying of "Well, you've either got it or you don't."
(Tessa has a scheme where you can take three steps and join a
bunch of stuff and he'll promise you $125. When you complete the
steps, if you don't read the fine print, you realize that you need $200
to cashout. And in order to get that you need to do some heavy
marketing... or... something. Hence, it's a friggin' pain in the ass,
and almost guaranteed to not work if you don't know what you're
doing. I didn't. Lost a few bucks on that...
Reminds me a little of GDI, and GDI reminds me a little of FHTM.
GDI stands for Global Domains International.
FHTM stands for Financial Hi-Tech Marketing.
Both have great referral schemes, but if you don't like the product
(and the products for each isn't so great), then the whole
program falls apart.)

So, I think that'll be my homework to myself (which I'll probably
do out of sheer PTC-addiction), to figure out this renting
referral thing, and how I can make it profitable for myself
and others. Numbers are one thing. Behavior is another animal
entirely. I got about $1.50 built up before I rented 3 refs;
a little lower than is recommended to start, but I sort of just
want to observe the 3 referrals more than anything else.
I was getting bored with just clicking 4 ads per day.

So. There you have it. I'm addicted. :-( :-P
Not to say that I'm not still looking into other
methods. This post is specifically about PTCs
and NeoBux.

New Horizons: The Stock Market?

As all 8 of you are aware (assuming that all 8 of you actually read this blog, which is presumptuous of me), I haven't posted a blog update... for a really, really long time. Not as long as a year, but I'm not exactly posting every month.

I'm not sure what to do about the title of this blog - "Which PTCs Work" - since, as it's turning out, (unless of course I'm just not managing them well, which is entirely possibly and plausible), it's possible that none of them work. At least, not in the way I was planning.

The plan was to gather up a bunch of little PTCs (sites with lower amounts per ad and so also lower payouts), and collect those until I had a substantial profit going. There were two problems with this. One problem was... the lower you go, the less worth the while it is. You can only go so far until you're clicking an ad for $0.0000000001. And I'll bet you my two eye teeth (whatever that phrase means, which I don't know why I thought of, but whatever), that ads like that exist. How many of those ads do you need to make a cent? Yeah, exactly.

The equilibrium of this was to aim in the range of $0.002 and $0.01 (anything above that reeks of scam). Paidtoclick.in was a good one. NeoBux was a good one. DollarClickOrSignUp was a good one. Then I got a job at Subway. That changed my perspective a little. So, clicking on $0.002 ads didn't seem as worth it anymore, and because sites like DCOS eventually went from $0.01 per click to $0.002 per click, and there aren't and weren't that many of them, collecting these sites wasn't exactly that easy, nor profitable. One huge advantage, however, of DCOS, has been that I got 2 referrals who have made me a decent amount of residual income. Just the other day I cashed in $3 for doing... nothing (100% referral earnings). Not too bad. But not too good, either. And as to why they're clicking on those pathetic ads, I have no ideas, but hay, fellas, ty for monae.

So, PTCs are out of the mix for me. Why? Because I want a type of income that I can pass on, one that isn't reliant on getting more people into the game as a means to make money. Low PTCs are one of those, since most of them are scams, and the rest of them ain't worth the effort. However, that doesn't mean that I'll ignore all PTCs. My NeoBux account was suspended because I wasn't using it. The other day, I signed up again. I have no idea if it'll pay off, but I think it's worth playing around with. And it's certainly (if I can get it to work) a PTC that I think would be worth passing on (even though anyone who knows anything about PTCs has already joined it).

Now, what have I moved onto? Just because one version of internet revenue isn't working for me, does that mean that I'll accordingly just eschew the internet altogether? Hell no! I'm too obsessed with this medium to do that! And besides... I'm lazy. I don't like the idea of getting a job and being reliant on that, I don't like hard work, and I'm 20. Whoa. Sound odd? Yeah, I'm odd (although, I guess, who isn't?). The only reason I can conceive of for having a job is one or two of the following:
1. Money to use for what I'll actually do. (i.e. Startup; foot in door; learning capital).
2. Rubbing shoulders with businessmen and learning psychology (i.e. Watching people, interacting with people, as this helps me figure people out, which is one of my goals).

Also, I recently went to a Get Motivated! seminar, and then after that, a financial seminar about Tax Liens, Credit Spreads, and various other stuff. They also talked about Options and, basically, the Stock Market.

Do you remember seeing those Forex and eToro ads in NeoBux, assuming that you've done some NeoBux? Yeah, I'm trying a demo of the stock market on eToro, and reading up on the stock market. Later, I'll probably put some play money in. Right now, I'm doing the demo, where you start out with $2,000 (play money).

So, what am I currently doing?
NeoBux - just started, $0;
GomezPeer - started around 8th month of '09 - So far $12.77. I've made. Make note - I've been having internet connection problems and have been using a rather slow internet.
Swagbucks - started a bit before the 11th month of '09 - $15, and I have requested $5 more last week.

Is this a lot of money? No. Is this money that you could be making with pretty much no effort on your part? Yes. So, essentially, if you're not using these two programs, you've lost, possibly, $27, over about an 8 month period (might be different, might not. I just chose a number so I could work with something). I know, so impressive. That's why I'm trying to figure out more stuff to do on top of those. And $27 for 8 months is, sometimes, a lot more to show for what you've done than what you might get for a year of PTCing. Sheesh - I spent around $200 on bux.to! How's that for stupid! Shoulda spent it on NeoBux... Anyway, I'm trying to figure out more stuff to do, how I can help more people, et cetera. And I probably will spend that $90 on NeoBux, because it looks a heck of a lot more stable than bux.to ever was.

The next question, accordingly, is How can you help others*, without putting a crank in your neck by doing all the dirty work that would seem to be required of a business? How can you help others*, and still just click buttons on your computer, and make a killing, and help others make a killing?
I have no idea. Yet. 


Stocks look like a definite possibility. Funded by getting a job and getting some leeway started. Definitely will want to consider more stuff, though. Don't like the looks of a job. I'd rather do odd jobs here and there... but could I do those through the internet? Maybe Odesk...


*Focusing on helping others gets you money, and giving it away, means you keep the money. This is what the guy from the financial seminar said. Internal focus means you'll never keep the money; outward focus gets you money like there's no tomorrow. The problem that I'm having with that is this: 
"Ok, so I want money. So, how can I help you, because I want your money?" It seems a little... contradictory. Also, another focus is that of competency.

Not Really Enthused.

I've finally decided to say it: I've become rather disinterested in
PTCs as of late. The earnings simply aren't enough. And it's
really tedious. I've lost interest in them. So the "lots of little
ones that add up to a lot" doesn't really work out - there
aren't enough, and the pay is too low.

There's also the problem of Why I'm doing them. I'm doing
them to get paid, and you know what? That's why the PTC
rate always gets lower after a while. You see a new PTC up
with $0.01 per click? A few months later it's at $0.005, and
soon it's at $0.0001? Yeah, and guess why. It's cause the
eyeballs going to the ads aren't worth much more than that,
and the expectations are adjusted accordingly.

A few of the other things I've been doing have been working
out alright, and I'll definitely be sticking with them, and hopefully
trying to find more of them. There are two of them, so far.

One is Swagbucks (yes, that's a referral link).


The other is Gomez (yes, another referral link).

(annnnnnd, the picture isn't working... it's a pretty one, too!)

These two are the main survivors of that PTC test that
I've been trying to figure out. With Gomez, you're providing
value to website testers, and they pay you accordingly.
With Swagbucks, it's more of a paying-you-for-what-you're-
already doing type. Really, that's what both of them are like -
having your computer being turned on and on the internet,
and getting paid for that is pretty much getting paid for what
you were already doing.

work-online.org.uk was another promising site, but it
has two important downfalls. One of them is that the
keywords are hella-annoying to incorporate, and sometimes
even, understand. The other is that there isn't a consistent
amount of work available. And the kicker is that you don't
exactly know how the writing is being used, except that it's
for "research". Much be rather shoddy research...

So, there are two things that I'm focusing on right now.
One is that of being paid for what I already do
(searches, chatting, whatever), and trying to find
two more methods of earning money, one of which
is that of setting up little things here and there that would
make me a little cash, and can be automated. Then
I could just make a lot of those, and it would eventually
accumulate.

The other thought I have is doing odd jobs here and
there, such as helping out older people figure out how to
use computers. Apparently there's a demand for that.

I'm not sure if I'll change the blog name or whatnot,
but things are going to start changing a bit. One thing
I don't want to end up doing is that of referral hogging
(which is when you're competing for referrals because
only you and not other people benefit from that).
Instead, I'd rather have something that I could use myself,
and then share it with others if it's even worth having.
Such as Swagbucks and Gomez. Perhaps it could
be a community sort of process, where everyone ends
up sharing their money-making methods, till eventually
we're all rich. :-) Now there's a thought!

You might be wondering, if I'm trying to avoid
referral-hogging, why I posted up my referral links
instead of the main links. Well, because for those
who would see the links and just sign up haphazardly...
why not? If you see it and want to share it with someone
with the main link or your referral link, go for it!
But you do know that the way these things spread
is through incentivising people recruiting each other?
and so that's partially what I'm doing. It's just that
if you end up taking that part too seriously,
and put the dependence of your livelihood on it,
that's when it becomes referral-hogging, and
that's the part that I'm trying to avoid.

What makes a PTC "decent"?

1. The setup of the daily ads and the cashout 
makes it possible to cashout in 10-30 days.
2. The ads are worth at least and preferrably 
more than $0.0001.
3. Time spent on the ad being not more than 
40 seconds, although this one is more optional, 
depending on the quality of 1 and 2.


The idea is to gather up a lot of PTCs 
instead of focusing on one, so that 
you get a lot of little cashouts quick. 
What would you prefer, a PTC that has 
4 ads per day at $0.01, with a $2.00 
cashout that will eventually go to $10 
(Neobux), 
or a lot of little PTCs that you can cashout 
in 10-30 days?


Also:

I've already been through this before, so to start with 

I'm going to go through PTC-Investigation's Legit PTCs 

list and find the PTCs that are decent. After that I'll be 

searching for PTCs as well as taking suggestions.

Rethinking PTCs

About 2-3 months ago I had planned on shutting down this blog (which I did by not posting on it), and perhaps even deleting the contents. Two things kept me from doing the second - I hate it when I lose data (because it's really annoying and it screws up figuring out what happened in the past), and I kept using the PTCs now and then, though mainly NeoBux. I've been doing a lot of thinking about a lot of stuff lately, and I also got a job about a month back. Getting a job (at Subway) changed my perspective on the scale of things. Getting a $100 check after a week is a lot different than, say, putting in 1 year at bux.to (I know, I know, that's a tad unfair to PTCs) and getting $10.

So I've rethought PTCs, why we do them, why advertisers do them, and it seems kind of weird to me how the two approaches are almost mutually exclusive. There are the PTCers (you and I, if you're doing PTCs) who are after money primarily, and then there are the advertisers, who are looking to get their content promoted. The main appeal of this approach - PTC - is that it seems easy for both sides. The advertisers can pay for their ad to be seen by ad clickers (the workers), and the PTCers can click through the ads like workers. It's win-win for both sides, with minimal effort.

Or is it?

One thing that I noticed about new start-ups, such as DollarClickOrSignUp, is that the site starts with a high-pay -- $0.02 or $0.01 -- and then over time, that amount slowly declines, until it's at about $0.005 for all of the ads, instead of the few at the end. And now it's at $0.005 in the front and $0.0025 for the rest of the pages. It's at this point that it's, at least for me, "no longer worth it," which is the point of this blog - 'a search for decent PTCs.'

There are a few questions that I've come to about this, because if this isn't working, and it hasn't been working for a long time, why the hell is it taking so long for it to work? This being internet-based and all, it would make, perhaps, more sense for there to be a quick adjustment. Here, then, are what I think are the essential questions to ask:
1. Why are you PTCing?
2. Why are advertisers using PTCs as a means of advertising?
3. Is there a gap between PTC users and PTC advertisers - is there an expectation on one side that is impossible to meet?

Imagine that you're an advertiser, and you want your stuff to be seen. Are you going to want the casual PTC user to just combine your ad with a whole bunch of other sites?* No, you're going to want that user to actually look at the friggin' ad. Why the hell are you paying him if he or she isn't going to look?! 
And so you adjust your prices to pay him/her accordingly...
*(This is a technique used to get the maximum amount of money for a minimum amount of work, and it usually involves tabs and keeping PTC sites in a favorites folder)

The majority of people who are coming to this blog would be PTCers like myself - there's not really a need to say, "Imagine that you're a PTCer." Instead, there's the question - why are you PTCing? The answer tends to fall along the lines of "easy money", with serious PTCers ... kind of online addicts. (Ahem... me.) I have been looking for a way to make money online, partially because I didn't want to get "a real job". That's one reason out of a vast majority of reasons, of why various people PTC. However, if the most common reason, why the vast majority of people PTC can be answered, then a revision of PTCs can be made.

The big problem with the disconnect between PTCers and advertisers is pretty much that PTCers want to have their cake and eat it too. This has been referred to as "there is no such thing as a free lunch." This is a touchy subject for me. But it needs to be dealt with.

One solution to the problem of people not paying attention to ads was suggested to me by a site that utilized it - the site only counted down when you were looking at it. Possibly, the reason why it didn't stick around was
that it didn't address the basic want, so people stopped using it. Or was it Palmbux? I forget. However, before we get to solutions, it would be a good idea to address the basic philosophy this is all built on. After this has been done, PTCs, or perhaps the user, or perhaps the advertiser -- or perhaps all three, can be improved and innovated.

Shutting Down

I started my online adventures as many do - trying to make money online as a side hobby. It became more, though, because I couldn't find another way; I was and currently am a leech on two people (my parents). I end my online adventures in PTCs because I do not see the mutual benefit of such an endeavor involved. Either you are taking advantage of advertisers, or being taken advantage of by a PTC owner. I say taking advantage of advertisers, because the point behind it is "paid to click" - not paid to look. I used to want to be, as it were, "employed" by a PTC - paid for the job of looking at advertisements. Even though this does look like fair trade, the reason that it exists is a backwards approach. If nothing else, my reason for PTCing was that of taking advantage of PTC owners, and for that reason alone, there is already an inherent conflict of interests.

I am not opposed to making money online - I am opposed to non-mutual benefit. It could be also put as that I am for "win-win" or "no play" situations. This would be a "no play". If you're not getting anything from a deal, then you might as well be sacrificing your effort and time. Having read Atlas Shrugged, along with anti-statist theory from theorists such as confederalsocialist (fringeelements), and Stefan Molyneux, but especially epitomized in Atlas Shrugged, it is my desire to become self-sufficient, and opposed to that desire is non-mutual benefit, and that is why I am shutting down "Which PTC's Work?". This service of blogger.com is, itself, a free service. That is something, as I intend to keep this blog up for archival purposes, that I need to deal with. I have been incorporating this mindset as I find things coming along, and it is quite easy to spot places that I have been using for free and that are therefore non-mutual benefitting.

Since this blog has been dedicated to a leech-based direction - PTCs - it would make sense to simply delete it: it perpetuates the cycle of leeching that I am opposed to. However, it is not for me to be an archon, and the attention that this blog yields for blogger.com means money. But, that money goes to leeching activities.

Simply put, I am leeching off of blogger.com and will need to account for that, although, I recall how google works, in that it makes money from ads... I am undecided as to whether I will delete this blog. However, it is being shut down.

$0.19 from PaidToClick.in!

It took about a week, and boy did the clicks add up! ... I've been enjoying a bit of competition with trying to be the top clicker. It's annoying when I've clicked all of the ads but only get #2! XD There are also a lot of LinkBucks links on the site. I've come to simply use firefox to do the bulk of the ads, so that I don't get annoyed when I come across 7-12 LinkBucks ads. While LinkBucks is great for those links that are for information or entertainment, they totally circumvent PTCing!

What is PTC?

PTC stands for Paid To Click. The basic idea is that you click on a link, wait an allotted amount of time, and then have some more money in your account on the PTC site you signed up with. The most common settings of this are that of $0.01 and $0.005 cents, and 10-30 seconds per ad. Usually there is either a confirmation code or some other means of showing that the click is done. Sometimes there isn't.
A good example of this format is bux.to. However, it is not recommended that you try and make money with bux.to.

Two other ways of making money online are through PTR (Paid To Read) and Paid To Chat (... this needs a different name so the acronym isn't PTC).

PTR is usually subscribing to having an email sent to your inbox, which you then click on the link to verify that you got the email, or to wait for a few seconds or minutes (like with the PTCs) and look at some website. You then have more money or credits or points to your account.

Paid To Chat is less common. myLot, however, is a good example of this.

I will not be posting my progress of PTRs and Paid To Chats on this blog; instead, I'll be making two seperate blogs for those.
Changed my mind. That would be unnecessarily fragmented. However, I will distinguish between them so as to avoid confusion.

I've already started stuff up, but...

I figure I could, at the least, log the progress I make on here, and thereby organize it, at least for myself, if not others who might be interested.


PTCbux

Sign up to PTCbux here:
http://www.ptcbux.com/index.php?ref=shyguy76767

Currently, I just got a payment today from Joy-Click.com PTCbux for $0.03. Now, that may not seem like a lot, but when you've been getting a consistent return of Zero, it's like an epiphany!

Email about the 3 cents:

"Hello ----,

GPT Solutions Networks just sent you money with PayPal.

---

Payment details

Amount:		$0.03 USD
Transaction Date:		Jul 16, 2009
Transaction ID:		7XF81831L1030591B
Custom note:		PTCBux payout

View the details of this transaction online

GPT Solutions Networks is a Verified buyer.

GPT Solutions Networks has completed the PayPal Verification process to help confirm their identity, and they have a confirmed bank account, or been approved for a PayPal Plus Credit Card.
The PayPal Verification process is a security measure to confirm that a user is the owner of the bank account or credit card they are using in PayPal. Confirming each user's identity helps prevent fraud, such as identity theft, and increases the security of payments in PayPal.

---

Have you increased your withdrawal and receiving limits? Just log in to your PayPal account, go to the Account Overview page, and click View Limits.

Sincerely,
PayPal

PayPal Email ID PP274"

(I thought it was Joy-Click.com for a moment because they have a similar payout. Then I saw the custom note when I pasted it here.)

And my Paypal account:

"

	Jul. 16, 2009		Payment From	GPT Solutions Networks	Completed	Details		$0.03 USD

"

Each click pays a differing amount, and since I clicked about 6 links to get the 3 cents, it averages out to .5 cents per click. And I signed up to it either yesterday or the day before that (and definitely within the last week). Thus, the payout is fast. However, I don't know if it'll keep paying. After all, I've spent more than $200 on bux.to and am still owed $555 (I picked that number because it looked cool) from a year ago.

summary so far: PTCbux:
- about 4 ads per day
- payout at either 2 or 3 cents
- paid/payment within 2-3 days
- payout via paypal (other methods of payment? doesn't look like it)

I prefer payments by paypal, so I'll tend to find those type of sites that offer it. Alertpay is OK, since I could use the funds from Alertpay to pay for stuff on other PTC sites, but with paypal I can actually use the money.... y'know, for real stuff. Like eBay.

Sign up to PTCbux here:
http://www.ptcbux.com/index.php?ref=shyguy76767


Western Clicks

First off, the layout is annoying and confusing to me. Not much to say about this one so far except that I'm still getting used to its format.


Money Clicks

This one I find to be frustrating. The click links take forever to load. Each is worth .1 cent. However, I think I'll keep trying it, since the refresh thing it does is interesting. Currently I have $0.005 on it, and that's because I was busy clicking on other PTC sites, thinking that the links would never load. Looks promising.


LinkGrand

Payout is at $5.00. $0.003 per link. Interesting version of the "old links" for this site.


70Cents

Something to do with getting a minimum of 70 cents to do something. Since each link is worth $0.002, I'll have to click 350 links to find out what it is.
Here is the rules page for it:
http://70cents.net/Rules.aspx
And if that looks interesting to you, here's the signup: http://70cents.net/?r=shyguy7676
Cashout is at $1.


InstantPTR

This one looks absurd to me. You start out with $100 in your account and get 500-10000 cents for each link you click. I haven't found the minimum payout, but
"You do not have required amount to request payout.

If you do not want to wait you can always upgrade your account .
Upgraded members have no limits.You can withdraw any amount. "
And to upgrade costs $199. I think I'll wait till I reach the minimum. I doubt this is real. The numbers simply can't be right.


qualitybux
"

cashout settings
	Cashout will be open in full July 18th

"
In two more days I'll/we'll find out the details of that, then.
However, this does not bode well:
"

	Membership
		Type:	Pioneer
		Expires:	362 Days

"
Which implies that in order to stay in, I'll have to pay.
Each click is worth $0.01.


tempscript

Sign up here: http://www.tempscript.com/?r=shyguy76767
Cashout is at $10. Links vary in value. Less than 1 cent usually. Looks to be 4 ads per day. Payment via paypal.
Sign up here: http://www.tempscript.com/?r=shyguy76767


10Bux

While this looks like a replica of bux.to, I can't seem to get the ad click to register.


EarnEasyCash

An interesting site, to be sure. The format looks to be a combination of sites, and its various offers make for an attractive-looking time of ad-viewing, if only to see all the possibilities.

(simplified) "

PTC Banner Ads 4 Ads Available - Up To $ 0.004

You earn $0.001 Per Ad Viewed Click each PTC Banner seperately and view the ad for 22 seconds to earn cash.

PTC Surf Ad 68 Links Available - Up To 0.0187

You Can earn $0.0001 - $0.0003 Per Ad Viewed Use the Surf These Links button to automatically surf through all ads to earn cash.

Read Ads 2 Ads Available - Up To 0.012 Total

You Can earn $0.001 - $0.004 Per Ad Viewed Click each Read Ad seperately and view a message for 10 seconds before continuing to the website to earn cash.

"
Well, seeing it like that, I guess I'm more impressed than anything that a site would have both the one-time ones and the surf ads. Another interesting aspect is the membership:

(simplified) "

Upgraded Member $1 For 1 Month Membership		Upgraded Member - Yearly $10 For 1 Year Membership
Upgraded Member - Referral Purchase Bonus $2 For 1 Month Membership		Upgraded Member - PTP Bonus $2.5 For 1 Month Membership
Upgraded Member - PTP & Purchase Bonus $4 For 1 Month Membership

"

This is surprising to me because, typically, the cost to become a member is usually at least around $50-60. Also, a note of amusement:

"

	Alertpay	$1.01	0 %
	Paypal - Basic Member	$1.00	1 %
	Paypal - Upgraded Member	$0.01	0 %

"

Which seems to indicate to me that if you spend $1 to become a member for a month, you could make constant payouts during that month and get more than a dollar back. However, that would require considerable effort - I'd guess about 30 minutes to an hour's worth. I'll be doing the $1 Basic cashout.


Click Ptc Pro

This one is less motivating for me to click. Probably just something of today, I guess. Each link is worth around .1-.3 cents, and the payout is at .50 cents for Paypal. One advantage I do see with it, though, is this:



This I got from:

"Promote Click Ptc Pro
Promote the site and get paid $0.00002 for each unique visitor that views your referral URL per 24 hours. Premium Members Earn More! Allowed sites. Sitios autorizados "

So basically, I'll get paid 2 cents for every 1000 visitors I get to the site. Not exactly great, but it requires pretty much no effort from me, and is entirely dependent on getting traffic.

Assuming that I do everything on that site every day (and I doubt I will)/(and not including sign-ups), I could get to the $0.50 of paypal in (50 day/7 cents) 7 days.

(

PTC Banner Ads 34 Ads Available (about 2 cents' worth)

Click Links 47 Links Available (about 4 cents' worth)

Read Ads 5 Ads Available (about 1 cent worth)

)

Now let's say that I do what I normally do: probably about 2 cents' worth. That makes out to (50/2) 25 days. Well, not that great, but, if it works, better than nothing.


PPLinkx

One word: ...huh?


PalmBux

If it had ads... that would be nice.


Platine-Bux


2 ads per day,
.5 cents per ad,
payout via Alertpay,
payout at $5,
waiting period announced to be 10-15 days.

(2 ads per day = 1 cent per day,
500 cents... 500 days)

How much is premium?

"Premium Membership
one year
$15.00 " (pay via Alertpay)

Hmm. 365 days a year, $3.65 per year (cashed out 135 days after New Years) in basic.

"

Privilege	Basic (free)	Premium
Pay per click	$0.0050	$0.0100
Pay per referral click	$0.0025	$0.0050
Minimum payout	$5.00	$2.00
Maximum Direct Referrals	25	75
Maximum Rent Referrals	50	500

"

2 cents a day in premium, 2 dollar payout... 100 days to payout. $4 per 200 days, 3/4th's to $2 payout at day 365. To recoup the $15 would take... (to $14, 700 days) a little more than 2 years. But it's a ONE-year membership... That's an o... miscalculation.

7 cents a day in premium, 2 dollar payout; (29 days, $2.03); Cashout (2.03) times 12 months = 24.36 per year. Net profit of (9.36). Standardizing cashout: (2 x 12) 24. 24 - 15 = 9.

... doesn't look worth it. This one is rather close-cut. In standard, it takes about 1 1/2 years to make a payout. In premium, it takes a month. But, it costs $15 to go premium. Hm.




bux.gs

Cashout via paypal,
Cashout at $9,
Ads are bux.to style...
And if only the ads would register!


BPBUX

... The ads won't register.


BUXYOU

No ads available.


neobux



neobux is a particularly interesting one. Now that I've found bux.to to be unavailing of money, neobux has become the center of my attention.

1 cent per ad,
4-5 ads per day,
$2 instant payout.

However, there are some interesting restrictions:

To become a member:
"

	Have 50 clicks credited
	Have rented at least twice
	Registered at least 15 days ago

"

To refer people:

"You can only have direct referrals after 30 days of being a user and having at least 100 clicks credited"

To chat:
(something like 15 clicks - I forgot)

$2 / 4 cents per day = 50 days. Currently (joined 7-7-09 - 9 days) , I've done 41 clicks, with the 5 cent bonus sign up. So, about 10 more days more than a month left.

To upgrade only costs $290 (and 890 for the ultimate)! Yeah, only...




adbux

Not quite sure how it works... most of the ads worth .6 cents.


You Cubez

After I get 100 cube clicks, I'll start writing more about this one.


bux.to

Pshaw. I should've been paid a year ago.


Joy-Click



Cashout:
"

	AlertPay	$1.50	2 %
	paypal	$0.02	0 %
	site donation	$0.02	0 %

"

Since it says it paid me, but I'm not sure whether it was Joy-Click or PTCbux, this is one to keep on the table.